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Ferrari could quit F1 over $145 million budget cap – Binotto

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In the round-up: Ferrari team principal Mattia Binotto says the team could leave F1 if a $145 million budget cap is introduced, and said the sport should reconsider introducing customer cars.

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  • 57 comments on “Ferrari could quit F1 over $145 million budget cap – Binotto”

    1. Ferrari. I doubt it. Again.

    2. “Ferrari could quit F1 over $145 million budget cap – Binotto”
      Ferrari needs F1 more than F1 needs Ferrari.

      1. If it was to get even lower, we would not want to be put in a position of having to look at other further options for deploying our racing DNA.”

        Ferrari are failing to see that this is actually perfect for them, as it would then free up resources for them to return to front line WEC, whilst maintaining their F1 status.

        1. @eurobrun If that quote is the only quote the Guardian has based the premise of the article on, then I wonder if something has gotten lost, because at face value, “other further options” sounds like a threat to expand factory racing beyond F1, not instead of F1. And that would make more sense as well, because there is not an alternative racing series on the planet that is going to let Ferrari spend more than $130 million a year after this pandemic ends.

      2. Good.
        Let them leave.
        Every time anyone suggests a change they don’t like we get the same old ‘toys out of the pram’ response.
        Good riddance.

      3. @jt1234 i always find this POV hilarious. 99% of people in the modern world know the name Ferrari. Id guess only 70-80% even know what formula1 is… and i doubt 40% could tell the differance between a modern f1 car and a 2000’s indycar.

        F1 is definatel1y part of the ferrari’s heritage… but people buying them dont know why ferrari is synonomous with fast cars. It just is. Imagine if someone told you that you need your employer more than your employer needs you…

        1. Well…it’s their only form of advertising.

    3. MB (@muralibhats)
      23rd April 2020, 1:19

      F1 should do a Mattiacci to call out Ferrari’s bluff 😀 sadly.. they are not in that position nor have the guts.

    4. Problem with Ferrari saying it would leave over the budget cap is that their sporting endeavours will be even more significantly reduced if they leave F1, they have to make more significant sacrifices than under a budget cap and be more adversely affected if they’re not supporting a F1 team. It’s pretty clear that they’re just throwing out an over used bargaining soundbite that people are already immune to. Possibly it means they’re well aware they’re not efficient with the budget they have and are concerned they can’t make it to the front without outspending competitors. Pure speculation. Bring on the budget cap.

      1. @antznz

        Given the economic downturn, most sporting teams would welcome a budget cap. So, I’m not really buying Ferrari’s argument of have to reduce Human Resources. As you mentioned, Ferrari is just inefficient when working with a budget of any size. In the last 10 years, Ferrari have spent more than any other F1 team, and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I would go as far as saying they are the most inefficient team in terms of ROI per $ spent.

        However, having said all this. I don’t understand why Ferrari is complaining so much about the budget cap. I think they would be better off keeping a $145 mln cap and then secretly overspend to the amounts of $300 mln. If they get caught, they can just sign a secret agreement with the FIA to not disclose any details. I still don’t think Ferrari will perform any better, but without cheating they don’t stand a chance in hell.

        1. @todfod
          Good shout. They could go full Ecclestone and if they get caught, just pay a fine. This way Ferrari can still spend what they want… and more.

          But seriously, maybe that is the way to go.
          Set a budget cap, then everything in excess of the cap costs double. Anyone exceeding the cap has to donate (or is fined) £1 for every £1 spent above the threshold. That goes into a pool and is distributed equally amongst all teams that meet the cost cap (or possibly is weighted towards the lowest spenders to help them “catch up”)

        2. They would have to reduce the sportive devision and instead suddenly come up with a large R&D Department where they would put many of these engineers. And they would still need quite a few sportive department people to actually keep a presence in the world for marketing purposes anyhow @todfod @antznz

          So yeah, much as Dieter mentioned yesterday this is a pretty absurd statement.

        3. @todfod
          “Ferrari have spent more than any other F1 team, and have absolutely nothing to show for it.”

          Exept for a staggering profit margin, record sales and the image of being the most succesfull exclusive sportscar manufacturer in the world.
          Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Koenigsegg, Pagani….they all want what Ferrari has extracted from F1.

          1. You mean that massive haul of race wins, driver and constructor championships in the last decade?

            1. More race wins than McLaren, Williams, Torro Rosso, Haas, Lotus, Manor, Alfa/Sauber, Renault, HRT and Force India/Racing Point combined?
              More construction points to.
              And on top of that: An extreme succesfull business model!
              People talk a lot about the businessmodel approach from Mercedes (whose shares and profit margin have dropped by over 50% since 2015 (pre covid)) towards F1, but they are amateurs compared to Ferrari’s approach.
              Even without winning titles, lol.

          2. Exept for a staggering profit margin, record sales and the image of being the most succesfull exclusive sportscar manufacturer in the world.

            They haven’t achieved any of that in the last 10 years btw … they’ve only been going downhill.

            Also, how is any of this connected to their racing team?

            1. You’re asking how is the Ferrari road car division related to the Ferrari race car division?
              Yeah I’m not taking your comments seriously

            2. I don’t think you get the point son. If Ferraris road car sales were a reflection of their performance in F1.. Then they would only be going downhill in the road car division. The fact that they’re not doing too bad in the road car division is a sign that their racing teams performance has little to no impact on their road car sales.

              They’re a rubbish racing team.. I don’t know how any logical person would think they’re not

            3. We were more rubbish when we had the guy on your profile pic. The chemistry was bad, James Alisson was our technical Director it was a disaster
              Once Vettel came the feelgood factor was back, we weren’t beating Mercedes but it was great being a Ferrari fan. Then Binotto happened and in 2018 we actually had a great car.
              But Marchionne’s passing was a hard blow and a Technical Director has to play three roles
              Since you’re the most logical person on Racefans.net comment section, I’d say 9 poles and 3 wins is not rubbish after a regulation change, but hey I’m a Ferrari fan, I’m 100% passionate 0% logical
              But I maintain, if Alonso was still here we wouldn’t be “rubbish”, we’d be worse
              Ferrari, Mclaren and Honda improving after him leaving isn’t a coincidence

    5. I’m a Ferrari fan but screw Ferrari. Stop BSing and just get to taking part in the sport you prima donnas.

      1. Why should Ferrari bend over backwards to please a few incompetent racing teams?
        Ferrari has their act together, unlike Williams and McLaren (partly owned by a bunch of oil billionaires nontheless).
        Ferrari hasn’t furloughed staff and isn’t crying like a bunch of babies.
        I’m not a Ferrari fan in particular, but I agree with them on this point.

        1. robinsonf1 (@)
          23rd April 2020, 8:31

          Lol Ferrari ARE the ones crying like a bunch of babies. And the budget cap isn’t necessarily for the good of these smaller teams, it’s for the good of the sport as a whole. Whats the point getting to spend all that you want if it’s in a motorsport with 14 cars that no-one watches or cares about. If there’s no budget cap then F1 will go the way that LMP1 has gone.

        2. Why should Ferrari bend over backwards to please a few incompetent racing teams?

          I wouldn’t call other teams ‘incompetent’ if they believe they can achieve the same for less money, oconomo.

          Incompetence to me is a situation where you need the playing field ’tilted to your advantage’ to achieve success.

          1. @coldfly
            Did I miss something? Is Williams not incompetent? Is McLaren achieving more with less money?
            I didn’t hear these guys moaning when they were on top of the world.

            1. Did I miss something?

              Yes!

            2. @robinsonf1
              So you stop watching?
              I call your bluff.
              Even with 14 cars your average F1 fan will watch, like they have been doing since 1950, and new teams will come, as always.
              Bye Williams, bye McLaren, don’t forget to close the door behind you!

            3. @coldfly
              Aww, how cute, no counter arguments.
              But at least it’s fully clear now you have no clue what you’re talking about!

            4. But at least it’s fully clear now you have no clue what you’re talking about!

              I endeavour to meet my audience at their level :P

        3. OK, let’s take the extra money Ferrari get for, well, I don’t know… having red paint, and give it to those incompetent teams.
          Then we’ll see if the incompetent teams can loose as many world championships as Ferrari have with the benefit of all that extra cash.

          1. And still, with all those lost titles, Ferrari is by far the most successful exclusive sports car manufacturer in the world…. despite their “incompetence” on track……
            But how good have McLaren and Williams been doing the last decade?
            (They to get hefty bonus money btw)

        4. @oconomo Ferrari isn’t in the UK and can’t take advantage of the UK government scheme which the furloughing teams have used. One adapts one’s actions to the circumstances.

    6. Good!

    7. That headline about Rossi and Mostert had me going…. until I realised it was only about eSports

      1. For a moment I thought Valentino might be coming to Australia.

    8. These empty threats were doled out by their loudmouth president as well. We would really like to see limping donkeys make good on these threats for once and leave.

      1. Amen. Let them put their money where their mouth is.

    9. I can see where he’s coming from, though. For example, I agree with him in the part about potentially bringing F1 ever closer to the lower formulae if the costs are restricted excessively.

      1. Sure. But that would mean going from a 100+ million (even 145 million, after adding the things excluded brings us to about 210 millions) budget cap as proposed to something in the region of 10-20 million a year @jerejj.

        The lowest budget of an F1 team will still be about 5-10 fold what you would spend on anything in the lower tier series. And probably at least double (probably more) what a top Indycar team spends (even if they have more cars per team).

        It will still be more than what most are willing to spend on endurance racing too, since cost factor for developing those prototypes is one of the reasons it is hard to find manufacturers to stay in and pull that. See Audi & Porsche being out, Toyota being still shakey, Orca dropping out, Rebellion stopping etc.

    10. OMG!!! NO WAAAAAAAAI!!!111111
      FERRARI IS LEAVINGGGGGGG NOOOOO!!!!111 PLS LIBERTY DO SOMETHIN!

      1. Liberty could show them the door, that would help :-)

    11. Chapter 93840580 of Ferrari threatening of leaving F1 if there is something not favorable for them. By the way, maybe they could be using this to ‘show’ Vettel that if the budget cup is reduced, they just can’t pay him more than 12M per season, although I believe they have no interest in renewing him for 2021 and they really want a new driver like Ricciardo or Sainz or Giovinazzi.

      1. @heming49, Actually the budget cap excludes driver salaries, so top drivers should be able to be paid even more !

    12. If they want to run races at circuits without an audience in attendance surely the deal should be to pay for use of the circuit?

      If there are no ticket sales and no vendors for a race for a circuit to make any money why would they host a race unless F1 actually hires the use of the circuit the same as day I would do for a track day?

      1. surely the deal should be to pay for use of the circuit?

        There are enough race promoters who are willing to pay for F1 to come to town, and being supported financially by the city/country/title-sponsor.

        1. But they also surely do so for the foot traffic? Melbourne for instance puts on the event because it brings people in from around the world

          What value does a closed door event in the midst of restricted travel and business does an F1 race offer any event holder at present?

          1. But they also surely do so for the foot traffic? Melbourne for instance puts on the event because it brings people in from around the world

            Indeed, @philipgb, I doubt Victoria/Melbourne will be amongst those ‘willing-to-pay’ sponsors (even if they could organise it again this year).
            But others might be interested: Russia, the Middle East, China, etc.

      2. @philipgb Race contracts are generally (not always) in a multi-year block. No circuit is going to get a full refund if some of the races in the block they paid for happen, even if what happens for this year amounts to “paying them back” taken in isolation.

    13. Their budget cap would be $0million if they left, smart move dumbo.

    14. Ferrari’s PPP Budget Cap is already higher than most other teams with Italian salary levels some 30% below UK salary levels.
      This could be worth up to $10M for them. Ferrari could simply hire an extra 100-200 idle staff and fulfil his ‘role in the social fabric of a nation‘ ;)

      1. @coldfly

        Ferrari’s PPP Budget Cap is already higher than most other teams with Italian salary levels some 30% below UK salary levels

        You forget to mention the foreign stuff (especially British/Germans) that work for Ferrari, those would be earning at least 30 to 40 % higher salary, benefits excluded, than they get in their countries.

        1. Not sure of the Germans and Brits who work for Ferrari are part of the social fabric of the nation referred to by Binotto. @tifoso1989

          But if there are any or many working at Ferrari then I’m sure they are worth the premium they get part according to your comment. Thus Ferrari can still achieve more for the same ‘buck’ ;)

    15. If Ferrari don’t agree to the reduced budget cap then the future for Ferrari isn’t racing in F1, because F1 will dissolve. I suspect there’s 2 teams that are more or less “on life support”, with several more close to it. The choice is budget cap or nothing. Either Ferrari’s future is cheaper cars or Formula E. I’m not sure what they expect when they get there, but my suspicion is no bonus for turning up, no right of veto, no budget $145M budget cap, no one checking to see if your car drinks too much petrol. Oh, and also they’d have to lay off lots of their staff.
      Somehow, I think living with the reduced budget cap is the better of the two options.

      1. Indeed, fun really these people saying ferrari needs f1 more than the other way around when the situation is dire enough that ferrari leaving should be the end of f1 with the coronavirus crysis.

    16. What again! Who cares…….. Having watched how Indycar got their virtual season together in comparison to the debacle that is the F1 attempt – I seriously wonder if F1 has got long to go. I am finding myself more interested in Simon Pagenaud, Will Power and Scott Dixon than the endless childish politics and petulant drivers that define F1.

    17. “Ferrari could quit F1 over $145 million budget cap – Binotto”

      Of course they could, then could even win a world championship in the next 10-15 years! Even with the budget cap

      Don’t let anybody tell you something is impossible :)

    18. Ferrari threatening to quit again. Is it that time of year already?

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