Daniel Ricciardo, Red Bull, Baku City Circuit, 2018

Red Bull clear Verstappen and Ricciardo of blame for crash

2018 Azerbaijan Grand Prix

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Red Bull has cleared both its drivers of blame for the crash which put both out of the Azerbaijan Grand Prix.

Daniel Ricciardo and Max Verstappen retired from the race after crashing at turn one.

“There are no team orders here, but you’ve got to keep it clean,” the team stated in a post on social media after the race. “No blame on either driver, both race hard and want to win.”

“An Azerbaijan Grand Prix to forget for us today,” it added, “but both drivers’ have apologised and we all move on to Spain.”

Ricciardo said he was committed to an attempt to pass Verstappen on the inside when the pair crashed.

“The thing is once I’ve come out, [I] thought the gap was opening up on the inside, and then once I was there I had to commit to that,” he said.

Ricciardo added he’s “heartbroken for how everyone’s feeling in the team right now.”

The two drivers spent much of the race fighting with each other after Verstappen passed Ricciardo following a restart after the first Safety Car period.

“I wasn’t too happy with myself on the restart,” Ricciardo admitted. “I think leaving the door open in two, I could’ve done better. I was pretty filthy with myself with that.

“Eventually, [I] finally got Max and in clean air we were actually quite quick. The super-soft was terrible on the restart but it was OK after. But we just never had enough clear track. On the in-lap we had some traffic and Max was able to over-cut us so we were back in the same position that we’d been in. We’ll look over it and see if we could’ve done something different from that point onwards.”

Verstappen urged Red Bull not to impose team orders on the pair following the crash. Ricciardo said is glad they are allowed to fight each other.

“I’m thankful we’re allowed to race, especially myself and Max we love to race as we show, so that’s cool. We did get close a few times in the race, already touching.

“Sometimes we were on the limit and unfortunately it’s ended how it did. It’s not a nice situation. I think we both look pretty bad that it ended like that and for the team it’s pretty crappy.”

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Keith Collantine
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101 comments on “Red Bull clear Verstappen and Ricciardo of blame for crash”

  1. Really!! I cant believe that!

    I have always been one to defend Charlie and his stewards but cant support this one.

    So the Schumi weave is F1 now again?

    1. (@garns That’s Red Bull (their team) who has cleared them for now, not the stewards, who are yet to decide.

      And they both weaved. Funny that I mentioned the Mansell dummy in a previous Max discussion a few days ago. I actually loved it, very gutsy racing. Paul di Resta thinks it’s a racing incident where none of the drivers should be singled out with blame, and I think I agree, no matter what the final decision is.

      One of the previous defending moves by Max was actually more unfair.

    2. That’s Red Bull’s decision, not FIA’s.

    3. It was hardly a weave, Ricciardo didn’t feign to the outside long enough. If he held the move to the outside for a second more the inside would have opened up properly and then there could have been an argument. Verstappens car moved less than half a cars width to the right and barely opened up a cars width on the inside at all before it was closed again.

      If Ricciardo was hard done by he would say it. He has in the past. Pretty sure he knows it was a ballsy move and probably made in the heat of the moment feeling like he deserved to be back in front. He hit the very rear of Verstappens car after all, didn’t even get it up the inside. It’s impossible to say you’re in the right at all in that case unless you’re being outright brake tested.

      1. @skipgamer I agree, it’s actually Ricciardo who weaved. But kudos to him for the gutsy move.

        1. Dan actually can weave as he is trying to overtake.
          Its when you defend.

          1. @garns Apparently that needs explaining!

        2. “I agree, it’s actually Ricciardo who weaved.” – This. These MAXfanatics are unbelievable.

          1. @david-br – what I meant by that the guy trying to overtake can try to duck left or right to try and overtake- there is no restrictions on what he can do, unless he tries something stupid in the breaking zone.
            The guy leading cant. It did sound a little vague when I read it back :)

          2. @garns Sorry, our wires are crossed! I understood what you meant and I agreed, the idea that the blame could fall to the driver behind for weaving makes little sense (unless there’s another car immediately behind him, of course, in which case it gets complicated). Looking at the videos again, though, Ricciardo did try to sell Max a dummy and was already starting steering to the left before Max even started to go right to block him. So had Verstappen not reacted, the situation could well have been the same anyhow. In other words, Ricciardo was gambling on the dummy working.

      2. @skipgamer Verstappen went left, then right, then left and he would have had to move back to the racing line on the right going into the turn. How is that not weaving? One move is allowed and then a move back to the racing line.

        Weaving only holds for the lead driver. Ricciardo is never weaving in this scenario.

        Glad Verstappen took out his own team mate with this nonsense. Perhaps he’ll finally learn that this is not OK.

        Although I doubt it. He’s still one of those guys that rather crashes than be overtaken. Combined with Ricciardo’s dive bombing overtakes I’m surprised this doesn’t happen more often.

        1. @patrickl

          That’s not the way I see it. Coming into the braking zone (not even braking yet) Verstappen moved very slightly to the outside, then very slightly back to the inside as he started to brake. Hardly a weave at all and there was never a proper size gap for Ricciardo to go for on the inside. Ricciardo expected Verstappen to move to the outside much more and expected the gap to open up. He didn’t and that’s why Ricciardo could never get along side to even try an overtake and collided from behind.

          There was plenty of room on the outside, but Ricciardo never really wanted to go for the outside, and Verstappen never really defended it. It’s not as if Verstappen defended the outside, then covered a separate move on the inside. It was one move from Ricciardo and one defense from Verstappen.

          Put a wall there instead of a run off like at other tracks and that is the result.

          1. I think Max dummied Dan into the move but I think today Dan met his match, we’ve only seen both Redbull drivers race each other a few times, was it China 16 or 17 where Max’s supreme defence skills prevailed and Malaysia 16 where Dan’s supreme attack combined with defence led to an incredible win.

            Was it a dummy? sure but who dummied who.?
            I’ve only seen the move done thrice to perfection, Monza 14 DR on SV and DR on SP and Spain 17 SV on VB

          2. @skipgamer The pictures and the footage above show there was plenty of gap. Then Verstappen moved a full car width to the right falling for Ricciardo’s dummy. There was even more space for Ricciardo.

            See this image just after Verstappen moved right falling for Ricciardo’s dummy: https://i.imgur.com/OLJVb3b.jpg

            Plenty of room on the left. Even enough for two cars. Of course that was before Verstappen moved for a third time and went back to the left again

            Moves are not only counted in the braking zone. The rule was that the are not allowed to move in the braking zone at all or at best back towards the racing line (to the right in this case) leaving space for the other car if it has a small portion alongside.

            The counting of moves is for the whole straight and into the corner. There can only be one defending move and then back to the racing line. Verstappen made three moves and never got to point of moving back to the racing line.

            Hamilton got reprimanded for weaving in the middle of the straight! Simply while trying to break a tow.

            So please apply the actual rules instead of making up your own set of rules.

          3. @patrickl @skipgamer
            I agree with Tristan (now, having changed my mind on observing all the footage). If you look at Ricciardo’s onboard it certainly looks initially that Max has veered right, but that’s actually because Ricciardo’s input, visible in the film, is right and then quickly left (the dummy) which generates an illusion of Max moving much more. When you look at Verstappen’s onboard and the track camera (from the front) it’s clear he moves very little, drifting right for the corner slightly and then left to close the gap. I’d say 50/50 (racing incident) but with Ricciardo being over-ambitious and Verstappen’s block legitimate but ill-advised given Ricciardo didn’t have the possibility of bailing out.

          4. @david-br If you look at it from the fixed camera you see Verstappen move a full car width to the right. It’s ridiculous not to count that as a move.

            Besides, he shouldn’t be moving at all after the person behind him moved. This has been a gentlemen’s agreement forever in F1, but in Indycar they had to put that in the rules.

            I’d say F1 should get that rule too. At least they would actually be able to go for an overtake without the constant fear of being blocked/rammed off every time by someone who has nothing to lose anyway.

          5. @patrickl My perception is that he was already going right, slightly, not to block Ricciardo but to take the corner to make the apex, he then reacts. Had Ricciardo actually gone right, instead of selling a dummy to go left, then there would have been space for him to continue to run alongside. Of course then he’d have probably been pushed to the edge again by Verstappen. Hence his attempt to dummy right and go left. Should Verstappen have gone left to block him? In hindsight, no, since they crashed. But from his viewpoint, I think it was the first defensive move he’d made, not the second.

          6. @david-br Maybne you should actually watch the video then. it’s crystal clear that Verstappen started moving right well after Ricciardo went there. Also that he reversed back left well after Ricciardo did.

            Schumacher actually got penalised for doing that to Baricchello.

        2. @patrickl

          The counting of moves is for the whole straight and into the corner.

          Can you share a link that explains this rule ? there’s something i am not able to understand because Daniel never had a plan B and committed himself. Which means he relied on Max to do the right thing. Didn’t happen but what went wrong ?
          Videos on Youtube show just the last part of the crash–>Daniel moving right (dummy??), Max falling for it/defending, Daniel trying to overtake on the inside, Max defending himself and kaboom.
          Why cant Max defend himself there ? i know its a braking zone and aren’t drivers allowed to move under braking ?

          1. i know its a braking zone and aren’t drivers allowed to move under braking ?

            Ignore. Its illegal.

          2. @webtel The rule about moving under braking was scrapped before 2017 already. In fact they have pretty removed all rules about overtaking from the regulations.

            Still, there have to be some rules even if they are not written down.

            So something like this wouild still apply:

            More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.

            In this case it was clear that Verstappen made defensive 3 moves in total when only one is allowed.

            This type of crash is exactly why it’s not allowed to weave.

            It’s already very unsportsmanlike to wait for the attacking driver to move and then move. In Indycar something like that is forbidden. Again, because it’s extremely dangerous.

            For some reason in F1 this is allowed and even though it’s massively frowned upon, apparently Verstappen keeps getting away with it and won’t play fair. Other drivers are starting to play by the same dirty rules.

            So then they need to throw a dummy and lure Verstappen in the wrong direction. When he makes that blocking move he’s no longer allowed to move to the other side since that would be two defensive moves. Yet he makes 3 moves and does not get penalized!

            I think this is because it’s a crash between two team mates though. The stewards always find some excuse not to penalize clear offences when it’s between two team mates. Like when Vettel rammed Webber of in Turkey 2010, when Button put Hamilton in the wall in Canada 2011 and when Rosberg rammed Hamilton off in Spain 2016.

            The stewards then note that Vettel, Button and Rosberg commited an offense, but they are not penalized for some made up reason. Like that Button “didn’t see” Hamilton. Or that Hamilton was alongisde Rosberg only shortly in Spain. Nowhere in the rules do these conditions exist and never would some made up rule breaker like that be applied if an incident happens between two drivers of different teams.

    4. @garns

      Race Ban!

      Haven’t we had enough of Vercrashin?

      What is it gonna take? And injury? A crash every race?

      Ban the joker.

  2. It was 100% caused by weaving on the track and moving in the breaking zone.
    It’s funny that no one was doing this, and then Verstappen comes along and starts doing it, as if nobody else ever though of moving around and blocking people. Well, they all did, it’s just that they all knew it was illegal.

    This is 100% Verstappen’s fault as it is always happening to him, no matter who’s the other driver. It’s pure logic that it’s caused by his driving.

    I’d give him one race ban.

    Like every bad deed that goes unpunished, it only grows to become even bigger, until someone puts an end to it. He won’t restrain himself.

    1. +1 after watching the Formula1 video posted on youtube, Max has taken out his rivals more than Kvyat(while in RBR team) and still he has been cut slack by Marko. Todays weaving was very dangerous and only reason RBR saying this so stewards dont get involved punishing Max which would be a PR disaster for this Golden boy. Hope Ric leaves that team and the hot head Max is left on his own leaving RBR red faced.

      1. @Chaitanya Ricciardso’s dummy was more dangerous. It’s racing.

        1. Why- he is tyring or overtake.

          1. @garns It can be dangerous because you commit fully and if it doesn’t work, you have nowhere to go, and you only end up with no downforce. It didn’t look like Max fell for it.

          2. @garns
            It doesn’t make any sense what he’s saying, I know. Nothing does when he’s talking Max.

        2. Take a time to look for how many near misses this thing Verstappen does at the breaking zones caused in the past.
          It actually took longer than i expected, but it finally happened.

          1. This is what Kimi was pointing towards at 2016 Belgian GP. Adrian Newey’s body language was quite telling today as well after the crash very similar reaction to Bahrain GP crash as well.

        3. A dummy can never be dangerous. Verstappen is only allowed one move. So either he responds to the dummy or not.

          Instead he moved before the dummy, in response to the dummy and again to the other side after the dummy.

        4. You are completely wrong – there is absolutely no defending Verstappen – the guy who is defending gets to move in one direction to block/defend, the guy attempting the overtake can weave all he likes all the onus is on the defender to block his line with one move, if the other guy gets past so be it. Verstappen needs to grow up quickly, time and time again his immaturity on track costs other people, he is becoming a liability and a very dangerous one at that.

        5. The person behind can move to from one side to the other, as we have seen in countless overtakes over the decades. It’s the (slower on this occasion) person in front that needs to get out of the way.
          The double move under braking is poor form and as demonstrated on this occasion very costly.

      2. …reminds me of MCL when HAMI and ALON were on the roster….RB will have to make a decision soon as to who is no. 1 and who is no. 2…drivers will never decide that…you don’t get to be an F1 driver by being nice (remember Kovalainen)….if RB wants to get some of that prize money, they will have to decide who is their Schumacher and who is their Barrichello.

  3. I think that’s the sensible thing to say, from a team point of view.

    This is where team orders are useful (although certainly not what we fans want to see). They were racing against each other the whole race up until that point and I doubt there was a single person who didn’t think it might end like this

  4. Red Bull has cleared both its drivers of blame for the crash which put both out of the Azerbaijan Grand Prix.

    I wonder if Horner/Marko would be so forgiving if Ricciardo was not up for contract negotiations? They have made it very clear earlier that Verstappen is the teams number 1 driver, maybe they are having second thoughts?

    1. It doesn’t matter- Dan (I think) will be driving elsewhere next year on so much money it will make our nose bleed- best of luck to him!

  5. Look at the onboards and you hardly see a move. Ric was just going for a gap that was never there.

    1. there was clearly a gap there.

      and here is contact you can clearly see how far max moved over in the braking zones (look at white line on track & compare to above shot).

      1. Clearly not in the Braking zone yet!

        1. they were in the braking zone. daniel started braking just as max moved across.

          watch the live shot when we had the live data on screen. the drs closes when the driver hits the brakes and the drs indicator on the telemetry graphic went off just as daniel hit the brakes which was just before max moved to the left.

          1. doesnt have the data sadly but from the shot f1 uploaded you clearly hear that daniel started braking just before max moved over.


          2. Look at that clip from 0:25. It starts with the last bit of Verstappen moving left. Keep an eye on the dashed line and it’s clear that Verstappen after moving left, he then moves right over the dashed line to block Ricciardo’s “dummy”. Then when Ricciardo follows up on the dummy, Verstappen moves a full car width to the left again.

            After those 3 moves, Ricciardo has no space left to go anywhere and ends up in the rear of Verstappen’s weaving car.

          3. watch the live shot when we had the live data on screen. the drs closes when the driver hits the brakes – Exactly. RIC was already in the braking zone, let alone VER. VER got away, not for the first time and probably not for the last.

        2. Verstappen braked too early.

        3. Clearly not in the Braking zone yet! – Hahahahahah

      2. @RogerA Doesn’t look like Ricciardo could have ever passed Max and taken the corner even if he went through that initial gap. And even then, he still could have squeezed by. But again, it would have led nowhere with such a poor line into the corner.

        1. Doesn’t look like Ricciardo could have ever passed Max and taken the corner even if he went through that initial gap. And even then, he still could have squeezed by. But again, it would have led nowhere with such a poor line into the corner.

          Going on Ricciardos history and excellent overtaking record, I would say that there is a chance your incorrect on that.

          1. Indeed so JohnH – as clearly evidenced in RIC’s overtake on BOT at the last race. Difference there was that BOT had enough respect to leave a cars width up the inside and not ‘close the gap’ as VER did here…

        2. Doesn’t look like Ricciardo could have ever passed Max and taken the corner even if he went through that initial gap. And even then, he still could have squeezed by. But again, it would have led nowhere with such a poor line into the corner. – Haahahhaahah, you dutchies crack me up.

    2. Verstappen moved twice. The guy in front cannot weave – it is 100% Verstappens’s fault but because he is considered golden balls he gets no reprimand. Had it been most other driver’s or even Kvyat a couple of years back they would have thrown the book at him. Reminds me of Turkey 2010 when Vettel caused the huge accident with Webber but Helmut Marko pinned the blame ridiculously one Webber. Verstappen will end up causing someone a serious injury if he doesnt grow up quickly.

      1. Verstappen is 100% at fault and he should be punished outright to confirm his silly moves are not acceptable… but Dan’s overtake was also near impossible with the speed and distance to corner he would have most likely pull a vettel type and over shot the corner… and ver would overtake again… very silly driving from Ver as usual and impatient driving from Dan…

  6. Lol, this is desperate attempt by Red Bull not to get a penalty for Max weaving routine.

    Lets see stewards. If nothing happens everyone else needs to copy that.

  7. Again look at the hands of Verstappen and you zee huis steering wheel is straight when he starts tot shift gear.
    Ric crashed in the back and is at fault.

    1. I was watching the race at the time if the incident. I did not see an in car shot of Verstappen. is it available on Youtube? could you possibly post a link, I’m sure many of us would find it interesting.

  8. I’d say racing incident but more Verstappen’s fault.

    When you have a car behind you braking on the limit & you cut across the front of him in the braking zone you suddenly take the air off there front wing which immediately reduces there braking ability.

    This incident is the perfect example of why moving in braking zones is something you shoudn’t be doing.

  9. Just to correct the few comments (in various places not just here) I’ve seen suggesting Ricciardo weaved more. Yes he did but he’s allowed – he can weave 10 times if he wants. It’s the defending car that is limited to 1 defensive move – its to stop the attacking car running into the back of them after making a move that they can’t back out of – as in like Ricciardos today.

    Verstappen is a talent obviously and today’s crash wasn’t an easy 100% Verstappen to blame situation but if you’re crashing out multiple times every weekend it has to be something to do with your driving not just bad luck. He needs to cut it out as due to his mistakes this season he’s nowhere near the title fight already and he really could have been without these incidents.

    1. @shadow13 Don’t the rules also say you are allowed to return to your previous line after that one defensive move, given that “a significant part” of the attacking car isn’t alongside?

      It also seemed like Max didn’t fall for the dummy, but was trying to keep Ricciardo from getting a nice tow.

      1. Verstappen still had to move back to the racing line on the right. He hadn’t done that yet.

        Max did fall for the dummy. He clearly moved right a car width to cover it. He was not allowed to move back left to cover the overtake on the other side. Yet he did and ended his and Ricciardo’s race.

        1. @patrickl Even if Max stayed right (and I don’t think he fell for the dummy, but was actually trying to break the tow), it doesn’t look like Ricciardo was going to get a reasonable line through the inside and manage to pass Max and take the corner. Max doesn’t move to the right all that much, because he didn’t fall for it.

          Also, it’s interesting the rules don’t specify which racing line. Max’s original racing line was more through the inside – clearly not the optimal one, but that’s where he was before moving right.

          1. There is only one racing line and that’s on the right. Verstappen moving left at the start of the straight was his one allowed defensive move. Then he moved right and then again left. That’s two moves too many.

            The only move Verstappen was allowed to make was to go right towards the racing line. Not to the left again.

          2. Actually, the rules say that when you move back to the racing line, you must leave a car width between yourself and the edge of the track. So even if you accept that Max’s second move to the left (the one under braking) was his allowed move back to “the racing line”, he clearly did not leave a car width between himself and the white line that marks the edge of the track.


          3. I have posted a Youtube link showing the incident from inside Ricciardos car. Looks to me like Verstappen seen him coming from a way back and moved over to cover him. Then Ricciardo moved to the left and so did Verstappen leaving Ricciardo no where to go. Definitely no Drafting going on.
            Also it does appear that Verstappen may have backed off a little early? leaving even less room for Ricciardo to react, just my thoughts.

    2. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
      30th April 2018, 21:50

      His big problem is his lack of patientence. It cost him dearly in CHina, and he could also have avoided the Bahrain drama. He can be a great driver, but he seems less mature than he was in his early career.

  10. Driver 1 is known for having the quickest reactions allowing him to change direction in split seconds and defend from any attackers

    Driver 2 is known for his fully committed late lunge down the inside move allowing him to take position from any defender.

    Put both of them on one piece of track, and collision is inevitable.

    1. Not so. I disagree completely. Driver 2 (RIC in this case) had (at least) twice earlier in the race given driver 1 (VER) enough room to avoid a collision. Difference in the final incident is that VER did not leave that room in what I believe was an ‘out-and-out’ attempt to keep RIC behind him. Collision is/was not inevitable – VER had the choice of not covering the inside line and seeing who made the best out of the corner. VER chose not to do that.

  11. This crash would’ve been entirely preventable had Max not changed his line at the last-minute. #CrashtappenStrikesBack

  12. Only a matter of time Kimi said that after Spa. Both Kimi and Sebastian complained about this weaving last year, and it fell on deaf ears and Christian Horner stated that Max is just aggressive.

  13. This was clearly all Ericsson’s fault.

    1. I blame Maldonado.

      1. I blame the guy who pushed Grosjean off.

        1. That was Maldonado too. Poltergeist Racing’s #1 driver.

  14. Good decision by Red Bull. The two racing added a ton to the spectacle, and the keenness of both to race aggressively in previous races has given them a win (well Ricciardo). Max is pure theatre, and a brilliant driver. Much as I think he was slightly to blame, Ricciardo was also less cautious than usual – hence maybe the end result. But more of the same racing, please.

    1. I’d rather that Verstappen plays fair and we get to see an actual overtaking attempt rather than this ridiculous blocking all the time.

  15. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
    29th April 2018, 18:20

    This decision has absolutely nothing to do with who was at fault. They don’t know whether Daniel will be racing at Red Bull next year sont

    1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      29th April 2018, 18:28

      This decision has absolutely nothing to do with who was at fault. They don’t know whether Daniel will be racing at Red Bull next year so they can’t blame Max. They can’t blame Daniel since they want to keep him especially considering his race today.

      Sure, they probably feel this was Max’s mistake again but they want him to stop making mistakes. I think Max has Dani Kvyat written all over him – Kvyat was the same way and couldn’t get his act together eventually crashing into Sainz of all drivers. We saw it with Pastor too – once you fall into that spiral, it’s very hard to get out of it.

      It’s possible that Max maybe out of F1 sooner than later and his chances of winning a championship over his career are quickly dropping to zero. I think Red Bull would be delighted to win the WCC with Max, if that’s even possible since he’s turning into a point disaster. Great investment over a few races maybe but a bad investment over a season.

  16. You cannot move twice, the rule is clear.

  17. I have been saying for years that one of these days, Ricciardo’s late-braking moves will not come off well, especially against less cooperating drivers. No matter what Max did, Ricciardo did brake far too late.
    As for Max, he needs to be pulled back by the team. This is his fourth year in F1 and he still defends and attacks like someone who is a rookie hanging onto a race seat by a thread. I expected, after his Shanghai mea culpa that he would be more sensible, but apparently not. Even post-race, he was talking about the fact that he was sure the fight he was having with Ricciardo was being a good show for the fans. He has to stop thinking about that, at least as a priority.

    1. No matter what Max did, Ricciardo did brake far too late.

      If the driver can get around the corner they have not braked to late. Out braking your opponent is a classic overtaking move. Verstappens move was silly and counter productive. His fourth big mistake in four races.

      1. @johnrkh I think Lauda hit the nail on the head when he said it was ‘70% Verstappen and 30% Ricciardo’ in terms of blame for the crash.
        As for the Ricciardo point, one of the outbraking moves I was referring to was Budapest 2015, where he in fact, didn’t make the corner cleanly, and was clipped by Rosberg. The braking he was set to do just before today’s crash would have definitely seen him not make the corner.

    2. At the end of the day I think that types of drivers can be (broadly) be put into two groups. Those that have a lot of James Hunt (surname pronounced with a silent ‘C’) about them, and those who are little more circumspect. I’d currently put VER, HAM, OCO, PER, MAG and maybe VET into the first group – ie. will try to win/gain or keep a track position at all costs ; and blokes like RIC, ALO, RAI, BOT and formerly ROS, BUT and WEB etc into the second group – ie. will fight hard, but a little more ‘fair’ – if that makes sense. The problem I think (in the last 10 years or so) is that the guys in the second group have lost out in the whole to the guys in the first group. Only exception to that was Rosberg’s championship win in 2016 and even then he had HAM take him out (down the straight at Silverstone was it ? .. I cant quite remember) in an out-and-out attempt to win.

      I think that the stewards have something of a case to answer here – I feel that the racing could be ‘cleaner’ if penalties were imposed more often (historically). I am getting frustrated at the ‘racing incident’ choice now being what seems as the default position that the stewards will take.

      In respect to the Max and Daniel incident specifically, I think that the Red Bull team itself is to blame. It seemed to me that Daniel would have been well up the road and perhaps challenging Hamilton if they had of given orders for Max to allow Daniel to pass shortly after the first re-start. I say that as it seemed (from the telecast anyway) that Max was having some harvesting/battery issues and Daniel appeared to have the pace to be challenging, rather than being held up by his team mate. Perhaps the team knew more…

      1. @potsie159 Rosberg? Did you miss how they changed the defensive rules because Rosberg kept pushing people off track? On the straight! Or the way he rammed Hamilton off in Spain?

        If anything Hamilton is also very cautious. Apart from 2010 or 2011 when indeed he was a bit too eager, but also because he was trying to overtake the south American delegation which insists on crashing rather than being overtaken.

        Raikkonen and Bottas have also put each other in the wall a few times.

  18. Malaysia 2011:

    Facts: The Driver of car 3 made more than one change of direction to defend a position
    Offence: Breach of Article 20.2 of the 2011 FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations
    Penalty: Drive through penalty, imposed after the race in accordance with Article 16.3 (20 seconds added to elapsed time).

    Hamilton received a 20 second penalty post-race.

    1. Car 33, 3 is actually RIC.

      1. (in 2011 car No. 3 was Lewis Hamilton)

  19. Very much understandable. Although, i would say it wasn’t an all too wise move from Daniel.
    over-committed to the line on the inside..no plan B whatsoever..no room to bail out. Max was in his right to defend his line. Some say, he weaved too much, i say he second guessed Daniel’s move well and was marginally wiser there.
    In the end, the crash was inevitable.
    Perhaps Daniel should have closed in turns one and 2 and had a better exit and maybe try to overtake in turn 3. Could have been cleaner.

  20. It is obvious why Red Bull do not want to start publicly apportioning blame. They probably have already got 10,000 comments from Ricciardo / Verstappen fans on the social media anyway so no need to add more fuel to the fire.

    However, I am wondering what Red Bull management really think of Verstappen now as he clearly gets into trouble more often than Ricciardo or the average F1 driver. On one hand, he is still very young; on the other hand, this is already his fourth season in F1. Do they believe that he is going to get “older, plainer, saner” soon, that this is just a stage? Or maybe one day they will build him a car that is so fast he does not need to overtake anyone anymore? Or could he just turn out to be a quicker version of Pastor “I crash” Maldonado?

    I have no answers myself but I am just thinking that maybe F1 feeder series is not something a driver should just skip because he is fast enough – after all, you do not go straight from a primary school to the college just because you are a really smart kid.

  21. Oh, so it was nobody’s fault…

  22. New word for Grand Prix “Botsing Max”
    In dutch crashing = botsen. bumpercars = botsauto

  23. Ricciardo’s far too predictable with his (down the inside) moves, and Verstappen was wise to him. He saw that dummy coming miles off, and responded really quickly to it. Ricciardo could have just stayed on the outside, cut-back or used the DRS to get ahead. There’s a difference between racing ‘hard’ and racing ‘smart’.
    That said, Verstappen’s response is probably illegal according to the books, and it’s possible Ricciardo didn’t expect the second move. Either way, it’s a mess. Racing between teammates is good, but much of the racing we saw between the two today wasn’t racing ‘smart’, like Ricciardo pushing Verstappen to the inside wall out of Turn 1 in a bid to consolidate his overtake, or Verstappen running into Ricciardo’s wheels. This isn’t proper racing at all, and the two of them just conspired to slow their own race down.

    1. Verstappen did NOT see the ‘dummy’ coming ‘Miles off’ – Max responded to the dummy (he turned slightly to the right) and then turned slightly to the left to close the inside line after Daniel went left. This all occurred within about 300m of turn 1. If Max had seen it ‘miles off’ he would have made his covering move back at turn 16 (or before).

      1. @potsie159 well by ‘miles off’, I meant it figuratively, not literally. You can see by Verstappen’s inside move he was trying to mirror Ric’s dummy, and he did it quite early and fluidly, which makes me think he was expecting it.

        1. @wsrgo He was late covering the dummy and late covering the inside. Which lead to a crash.

  24. Whilst they may not be publicly apportioning blame, I’m quite sure that there will have been some very serious words about a couple of the incidents that occurred earlier in the race.

    The “slight brush” that Max mentioned wasn’t as slight as he thought and showed a clear intent to run the other car to the fence.
    A few laps later he again dive bombed from the inside forcing the other car to pull out of a turn or crash.

    Both could have resulted in serious car damage – I’m sure that management will be reminding him about severe risk taking.

    It’ll be back to normal by next race.

  25. By saying theyre both to blame Horner is helping Ricciardo take his decision to leave red bull

  26. great… max gets away with it again… its exciting to see him race… but you really cant be a champion when you dont even have the discipline to finish a race… and this youngster nonsense has to stop, he has had 3 seasons under his belt.. and how many millions did the teams DNF cost? (and yes it is about the money when this happens time and again) . guys bust their asses to get two cars’ on track. high time he realizes this is not about bravado and showing off aggression when not needed. redbull clearly needs to assign blame to every obvious incident (may be ric tomorrow too) so they know who’s costing them this nonsense.

  27. @patrickl You’re absolutely right, but there’s no reasoning or explaining these dutch f-boys. Same goes for @markzastrow and @shadow13. You can throw all the facts, rules and regulations at them, they will just come up with their own rules and reasoning with one known outcome, namely Max is the best and faultless. Always.

  28. From a fan’s point of view Ver’s moves were obviously very dangerous ones that caused an awful collision. However, all that matters at the end of the day is whether there is a rule that specifically forbids those moves. Can anybody confirm whether such a rule exists, and if it does, tell us where to find it?

  29. *desk slam rage*

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